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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 10:10 pm 
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diabo wrote:
請問若diff設的大一點, 如60%, 那adverse yaw會變小, 但桶滾會變大嗎?



Differential "設大一點",是不是指副翼向上的角度比向下大?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 11:25 pm 
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Diabo大大
你是不是指aileron differential (AD) ?既然講到AD,就來探討第6條問題:
怎樣Set機來迎合各種不同風況和場地?

我個人覺得AD的設定對飛F3F來說是很重要。
首先,AD的設定當然對Adverse Yaw (AY) 有關系,很多飛熱氣流或F3B的飛友都會設AD,設法就是如果飛機向左邊轉向時,使左邊aileron推上行程較右邊aileron落下的行程為多,左邊翼較右邊的阻力較多,飛機轉左就較順,AY的effect就會減少,這設定特別適合飛熱氣流,因飛機轉向慢和尾轉向要順。很奇怪,以我所知很多香港飛友都用這設法來飛F3F,但這設法用來飛F3F我個人絕對認為錯誤的!原因很簡單,F3F轉向機速快和轉彎急,AY的影向其實微乎其微,反而當飛機貼山做roll時,機翼到達與地面成垂直90度角時,橫切風會把飛機推向斜坡,飛機會花很大的氣力才能抽頭指向外而轉向。假如這時的AD設定如前所述,左邊airleron上多右邊落少的話,兩邊airleron上多落少就會有一個合共整體向上的效果,飛機會有一個壓向斜坡的力,加上橫切風的關系,飛機會向斜地傾斜飛人凌線,需要用很大的抽頭動作才能指出轉向。所以我飛F3F的AD設定就剛剛相反,右邊airleron落多左邊上少,當在右手邊線位轉向時飛機會加速轉向,加上兩邊airleron落多上少而有一個合共整體向落的效果,飛機在與地面成垂直90度角未拉elevator時已有snap flag的效果,抗擎橫切風的推力,飛機會直線飛行直到過線拉elevator才急速轉向,過程乾淨利落!
你可以看看以下影片,好明顯,他的AD設定就是上多落少,飛機轉向垂直90度時會有一個壓力壓向斜坡,需要很大氣力才能抽頭轉向,容易過線太遠和失速!
http://www.rcsail.com/tmp/ad_setting_demo.mpg


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 1:46 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2007 7:10 pm
Posts: 61
CM Cheng wrote:
diabo wrote:
請問若diff設的大一點, 如60%, 那adverse yaw會變小, 但桶滾會變大嗎?



Differential "設大一點",是不是指副翼向上的角度比向下大?


我是指往上大, 往下小, 如在JR的搖控器上設60%
就是往上100, 則往下就40


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:10 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2007 7:10 pm
Posts: 61
謝謝stanley的分享,在台灣我有遇到設成負值,而造成過彎時, 整台飛機在搖晃的情況,而我自己的習慣也是把dif設很大的正值!
最近有機會看到kevin newton ascot的設定, 才發現他只有設15%~20%也就是往上100, 往下80(85)
我會找時間, 上山跟我師父生哥, 討論兼試飛看看, 再來跟各位討論討論!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 10:27 am 

Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2007 7:10 pm
Posts: 61
昨天上山試了一下DIF.的問題, 以阻力, 及過彎時, 整個主翼吃風的情況, 其實跟飛法有很大的關係, 所以應該要以自己的過彎方法及姿態, 找到一個最好的DIF設定!!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:32 am 

Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2006 3:47 pm
Posts: 38
Location: northern of Taiwan
看這篇討論的收穫頗大,往往小細節才是最重要的關鍵。以前我的 AD 質都設定在 40%,最近由 60% 至 80%,慢慢的有明顯的進步,當然這也是因為我也在調整我的飛法,希望最近有更多空閒的時間,做不同的設定再來與各位分享。


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 7:44 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 7:31 pm
Posts: 1026
Apart from the mixing, this is also an important issue:

Image

Image

8) 8)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:48 pm 

Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 2:23 pm
Posts: 71
各位前輩分享經驗啦 :wink:
順風彎
逆風彎
怎樣轉彎才能最快和不失速?反肚裂s嗎?插上抽頭?插下抽頭?打橫抽頭或其他?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:22 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 8:39 pm
Posts: 726
由於小弟初學F3F,看見各師父的飛法都大有不同...好像Stanley(轉彎時機身約用傾斜約90℃抽拉)和Angus(反肚轉向抽拉)都飛得很快!!!請問對於新手比較容易掌握哪種飛法?先謝! :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:28 pm 
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Kenneth wrote:

Quote:
由於小弟初學F3F,看見各師父的飛法都大有不同...好像Stanley(轉彎時機身約用傾斜約90℃抽拉)和Angus(反肚轉向抽拉)都飛得很快!!!請問對於新手比較容易掌握哪種飛法?先謝!


I am also a new comer (just few years in F3F), let me share some of my limited opinions.

The method of turning is only one of the issues in F3F !

Other factors include:

The location of the slope (highland or seashore);
The characteristic of the slope;
Tharmal activities;
Air density;
Humidity;
Air temperature;
Wind speed;
Wind direction;
Wing load of your model and the amount of ballast you employed;
Airfoil of your model;
Your eyesight and judgement;
Your skills (coordination of fingers and mind);
Your phycological condition;
Your emotion; etc........

A good pilot could see the wind, read the thermal, watch the site and feel the lift !!

As Kevin Newton says....... Can't remember!!

There would have no one single method or one good model could win the match in all condition. All of us are still learning ! :P :P


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 12:40 am 
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Location: Hong Kong
小燦 wrote:
各位前輩分享經驗啦 :wink:
順風彎
逆風彎
怎樣轉彎才能最快和不失速?反肚裂s嗎?插上抽頭?插下抽頭?打橫抽頭或其他?


這個問題都好難講得清,但我心中常有金句:

保持機速,抓緊航道,準確到位轉向,減少迎風時間

以我的經驗,

1. 順風轉彎 - 忌插下抽頭,宜反肚split-S或指出抽上轉向,但反肚split-S時要留意因順風關係容易過位太遠,損失時間。
原因: 由於順風轉向,轉向後飛機會面對迎面風,如果插下,轉向後不但要破迎面風,還要爬升是很吃力

2. 逆風轉向 - 基本上什麼方法都可,但應選最快最準者。如用反肚split-S,就特別留心到位的時間,因迎風飛加上反肚,機速慢,好容易早拉而cut彎!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 12:58 am 
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Kenneth Chan wrote:
由於小弟初學F3F,看見各師父的飛法都大有不同...好像Stanley(轉彎時機身約用傾斜約90℃抽拉)和Angus(反肚轉向抽拉)都飛得很快!!!請問對於新手比較容易掌握哪種飛法?先謝! :)


Kenneth 其實我都無特定轉向飛法!上星期日在釣魚翕飛,我第一回合主要用側split-s,反140度左右插下,但發覺並無特別,只飛得47秒,見到Angus正180度split-s,有多少速度後,在第二回合常試用同一方法正180度 split-s,但後果強差人意,只得47秒!所以到了第三個回合,我就常試用較平側彎110度左右抽出,果然有用,架機出彎次次有力,不斷加速,才做就了今次的記錄!

所以飛機是死的,飛法才是活的,機手要不斷改變適應,在不同的場地抓出不同的飛法,才能創出佳績! :lol: :lol:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 9:08 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2009 7:13 am
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金石良言,獲益匪淺,各大師父多D提點,後輩可進步自然玩得開心及有向上心,人才便不會流失,F3F便可發揚光大!!
各新丁加油努力呀!!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 5:24 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 8:39 pm
Posts: 726
謝謝兩位前輩無私的指引 :D ,
在下定必努力實習 :!: :oops:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:17 am 

Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 2:23 pm
Posts: 71
抓出重點
減少迎風時間
順風轉彎-忌插下抽頭
綜合同場前輩過彎方法.調整自己的飛法
:wink: 謝謝 :wink:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 5:50 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 12:49 am
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Stanley wrote:
Kenneth Chan wrote:
由於小弟初學F3F,看見各師父的飛法都大有不同...好像Stanley(轉彎時機身約用傾斜約90℃抽拉)和Angus(反肚轉向抽拉)都飛得很快!!!請問對於新手比較容易掌握哪種飛法?先謝! :)


Kenneth 其實我都無特定轉向飛法!上星期日在釣魚翕飛,我第一回合主要用側split-s,反140度左右插下,但發覺並無特別,只飛得47秒,見到Angus正180度split-s,有多少速度後,在第二回合常試用同一方法正180度 split-s,但後果強差人意,只得47秒!所以到了第三個回合,我就常試用較平側彎110度左右抽出,果然有用,架機出彎次次有力,不斷加速,才做就了今次的記錄!

所以飛機是死的,飛法才是活的,機手要不斷改變適應,在不同的場地抓出不同的飛法,才能創出佳績! :lol: :lol:


看完之後昨天跟生哥到龍蝦灣實地測試 split-S, 不同角度確有不同! 學益良多, 謝謝 stanley 及各高手教路 :D

Alieron Diff. 我一向都係上多下小, 得知原來 F3F 設定會下多上小, 下次再飛又再一試, 看看如何!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:09 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2004 7:54 pm
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Location: Tai Po, HK
Albert wrote:
Alieron Diff. 我一向都係上多下小, 得知原來 F3F 設定會下多上小, 下次再飛又再一試, 看看如何!


原來 F3F 設定會下多上小:?: :?: :?:

你係指Alieron 定 flap 的設定呀 :shock: :roll:

Kevin newton F3F 設定:
http://www.knewt.com/planes/setup.htm


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 1:03 am 
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K.Y.Mak wrote:
Albert wrote:
Alieron Diff. 我一向都係上多下小, 得知原來 F3F 設定會下多上小, 下次再飛又再一試, 看看如何!


原來 F3F 設定會下多上小:?: :?: :?:

你係指Alieron 定 flap 的設定呀 :shock: :roll:

Kevin newton F3F 設定:
http://www.knewt.com/planes/setup.htm


Alieron 呀~~

Stanley 引言:
"設法就是如果飛機向左邊轉向時...... 假如這時的AD設定如前所述,左邊airleron上多右邊落少的話,兩邊airleron上多落少就會有一個合共整體向上的效果,飛機會有一個壓向斜坡的力,加上橫切風的關系,飛機會向斜地傾斜飛人凌線,需要用很大的抽頭動作才能指出轉向。所以我飛F3F的AD設定就剛剛相反,右邊airleron落多左邊上少,當在右手邊線位轉向時飛機會加速轉向,加上兩邊airleron落多上少而有一個合共整體向落的效果"


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:47 pm 
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Location: Tai Po, HK
Albert wrote:

Stanley 引言:
"設法就是如果飛機向左邊轉向時...... 假如這時的


原來係 Stanley 嘅秘技! :D
呢招對 F3F 轉灣係好有効。
更可以把一連串的過灣動作,簡化為一
用呢招要留意入灣要準,否則在直路上要作修正的話,隻機會因過多擺動而失去能量 :idea:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 6:48 pm 
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Location: Hong Kong
K.Y.Mak wrote:
Albert wrote:

Stanley 引言:
"設法就是如果飛機向左邊轉向時...... 假如這時的


原來係 Stanley 嘅秘技! :D
呢招對 F3F 轉灣係好有効。
更可以把一連串的過灣動作,簡化為一
用呢招要留意入灣要準,否則在直路上要作修正的話,隻機會因過多擺動而失去能量 :idea:


阿麥,這並不是什麼秘技,我一年前已經在這裡討論過,又在馬鞍山跟幾個飛友討論和示範過!
這種AD set法好處是可抗行橫向風,大風時效果好明顯,但這種set法也有弊處。如果機速慢,出灣後角度控制得不好,就好容易反機失事!我隻FR3就係因為出灣太貼近山,又沒有留意機速慢(因前一leg偷步cut灣),一出灣後就成隻機特然反轉,機毀人亡! :cry:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 12:31 am 
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秘技原來有咁大風險呀!!小心使用!!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:43 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2004 7:54 pm
Posts: 1660
Location: Tai Po, HK
Kolosun wrote:
秘技原來有咁大風險呀!!小心使用!!


呢招風險其實唔大、對F3F新手來說,更是好用 :o

至於AD是否要設定至上少下多、或上下一樣就足夠?
要自已去感覺一吓是否好飛
因 flap 通常都不能上反太多(會做成過多左力、所以也不建議)
所以當 flap+Aileron 一同下反,其作用力已比另一邊的上反大、一般已可達到目的

飛 F3F 有點像功夫對打,並沒有"一招了"的招式
最好是對不同飛法都加以了解,選擇自巳合用的幾個招式就OK啦

出招要配合當時環境、什至中途變招 :idea:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 2:23 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 12:49 am
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Stanley wrote:
K.Y.Mak wrote:
Albert wrote:

Stanley 引言:
"設法就是如果飛機向左邊轉向時...... 假如這時的


原來係 Stanley 嘅秘技! :D
呢招對 F3F 轉灣係好有効。
更可以把一連串的過灣動作,簡化為一
用呢招要留意入灣要準,否則在直路上要作修正的話,隻機會因過多擺動而失去能量 :idea:


阿麥,這並不是什麼秘技,我一年前已經在這裡討論過,又在馬鞍山跟幾個飛友討論和示範過!
這種AD set法好處是可抗行橫向風,大風時效果好明顯,但這種set法也有弊處。如果機速慢,出灣後角度控制得不好,就好容易反機失事!我隻FR3就係因為出灣太貼近山,又沒有留意機速慢(因前一leg偷步cut灣),一出灣後就成隻機特然反轉,機毀人亡! :cry:


怪知得今日一試, 架機出彎之時怪怪地, 副翼有點不受控, 搞佢唔掂~ 暫時技術未到家, 唔敢再用這種 AD~ :wink:


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